Harmonies of Tomorrow Dave Cody Interview Part 3

Welcome back to Weif's Thoughts and the final part of our interview with Dave Cody, as we continue our conversation about AI its effect on the world and the music industry. We thank you for sticking with us throughout this three part series, and remember you can listen to more episodes of Wife's Thoughts by going to Weis's Thoughts dot com, w y c E. Weiss Thoughts dot com, or look for us on your favorite podcast provider. All right, let's get right into it now the final part of our three part interview with Dave Cody, this time on Wife's Thoughts. It's time for a virtual campfire sit down with Terry Weiss. Welcome to Weiss's Thoughts. But yeah, you know, and that's that's the that's the thing it's it's about. And with I with like I said, with AI, Yeah, it's gonna be something like you said, I think it's a double edged sword. There's a lot of promise, but there's also the potential for a lot of peril. It has a lot of great uses, you know. I mean I think teachers are more afraid of it, maybe too than musicians and creatives. Because now I need you to write a thesis. Okay, chat GBT, write me a thesis about sixteenth century nomadic tribes in the Middle continents of Europe under the oppression, And you just give it that prompt and it'll write you a thesis and you go here you go. Oh, I use it. I use it regularly in my job because you know, I use it for crafting emails, because you know I can write. But I would say, you know, write me a professional yet friendly email to communicate with a client about potential business for blah blah blah blah blah, about an upcoming project that we I'd like to collaborate with. And it writes out like three different versions, and I'm like, man, I couldn't write that myself. You know. The dirty little secret of uh you know, or an online music retail. Uh you know that we follow up, we do things old school. We call and you know, you know, oh yeah, I know, Hey, how's how's it working out for you? Thank you? You know, it doesn't matter whether it's a five thousand dollars Paul read Smith's guitar, a three dollars ninety nine cent set of picks, which cost us six dollars to ship, right, you know, it's connection. Connection, it's it's connection. And so you know, I I send out a lot of text and emails because if I get a you know, phone doesn't pick up or what have you off, typically you know, just shoot a text or an email and I I love AI. For the purpose of every month or so, I will go in and I will rewrite my emails. And there's only so many ways to say, hey, thank you for your order, hope everything's working out for you. If I can help reach out, let me know. That's why I'm here exactly. And people don't want to receive the stale emails in any industry, let alone your industry, you know. You know that where you're at commission based, you know, and reaching out to creatives, you know, because you get to say. It's like the person knocking on your door in the olden days, Hey, I've got a great brush. Here, clam, there goes the door. Yeah whatever, I've seen a brush a thousand times, you know. But now if they're standing there and they're juggling three tennis balls and a hair brush and say hey, I want to shame my I mean, hey, wow, this is different. Okay, yeah, come on in for a second, you can have a few minutes of my time, you know. And so yeah, it's one of these of the the again, what's then behind it? Then turn behind it is genuine right, and intern behind it is you know, Hey, that's how I keep my lights on. That's how I take care of my family. You know, I'm dead serious, thank you, right, you know, well that's one of the things too, I guess I am. And by the way, folks, this show is in no way sponsored by Sweetwater and David giving me free equipment unless you want to Dave, you know, for being on. But it's a T shirt. Oh gee, I had a guy on my podcast for over now and all I got was this lousy T shirt, isn't it? Isn't that how they make those up? You know? But but yeah, I'll tell you, I mean, I'll sing your praises. I've been working for Dave for many years now, and it is as he says it is, you know, right from our first interaction, it was that personal thing reaching out, but not in an annoying way, you know. It is. Hey, thanks for buying, you know, like you said, I think I bought I think one of the first things I bought was a couple, maybe a box of strings or ten packets or strings ors I can't even remember. We've been to you know, and and and what have I told you, Dave? The thing that keeps me coming back to you And and I'll say this, and many of you out there listening to the to the podcast too here on Woice thoughts might be saying, I don't care if I pay a few dollars more. I want customer service that's important to me. And that's what's important to me. And I've told you this, Dave on many occasions. You know, I can come to you when I have a problem. I can you don't hide. I can come to you when I have a question. And I come to you when I want to sale. And I can come to you just to shoot the ship and say, hey, what's coming in next month? What do you see at the show this year? You know, stuff like that. There's a relationship there that you used to get in the mom and pop music store. There's a relationship that you used to get in your local smaller business. Will do it some of the local good ones, right people, Because I will sit there and often if somebody says they have a good local mom and pop and they call me to buy a set of strings. I'm going I'm from your local guy. He needs the business, do it exactly. And people think it's weird. And I thought you were going to say the reason you kept coming back was the bet of honey. But no. Oh yeah. By the way, for those of you who don't know if you buy not if you will when you buy something from Sweetwater, they always send you a little packet of diabetes in a bag. I mean, get candy in a bag, you know, whether it be TUTSI rolls or what are those things called that's not sour patch, fireballs, fireballs, fireballs which thank you very much. You know I burn my mouth, you know, but you know my grandkids love it because I try not to eat some of that candy. I mean, I can't say I shy away from it all. But you always get that. But and you also get a cool sticker that you can decorate your studio with or whatever, put on your backpack or your guitar bass case or drum cases or keyboard, whatever you get. I've got so many of those stickers all around my home studio here, you know, I can maybe I should start a wall and just do sweetwater stickers. But it's the service, and that's the thing. I was talking with somebody else, another business owner actually in my local town here just the other day. We were talking and he wrote, and again the show is not sponsored by Subway, but Subway. I do eat enough at your restaurants. I think I could be a spoke person because my wife gets really angry at the amount of money I spend each way to go to the subway. But anyway, I was talking with him. He owns a couple of subways, and he says, you know, I want what I teach my employees here is service. It's not just about coming in somebody getting a sandwich. It's customer service. That's that's what's important. Make that connection because they can get a sub anywhere. They can get it at this place and get it at Firehouse Subs. They can go get it from Mics or wherever you know, or these big chains and stuff. It's just make a connection and across every industry. Dave and I think you can agree. You know, I don't want to say a majority, because I guess that would be too throwing too white a blanket over everything. But there is a good number of businesses and industries medium to larger size that in my humble opinion, I don't think you have a shit about the customer. They just want the dollars and leave us alone. And they hide behind they hide their customer service team behind chatbots and and everything else. What are your thoughts? Those are the companies that are going to misuse AI and it's going to go bad. You know, we're already seeing it in the music industry, and competition is fierce and companies are fighting for their lives. Oh yeah, I agree, every company, every industry, not just the music industry. I've watched a number of different types of stores in my local town that's about five miles down the road. We've probably and and and it's not folks, it's not just the pandemic. So don't say, well, it's a pandemic that did it. It sure as hell didn't help. Shutting down these local organizations for a while and funneling everything to the big, multi billion dollar conglomerates. That did not help. Okay, and I that's a whole nother show for our count topic conversation about that. But there is fierce competition out there. Margin lines are lower how many times have I call you, Dave? You know, Hey, I want a Rickenbacker three sixty. You know, what can you do for me? I know that thing says, you know, thirty two hundred dollars retail, and you guys are asking, you know, twenty seven hundred dollars, and you always come across with good stuff, and you know, And but like I told you, you know, there's there's different types of clientele and customers out there. And I see it in my voiceover business, and I see it in a couple other businesses that I've run too, And I'm sure you can attest to this, Dave. Is that the hardest customer to deal with, at least I have found the most I'm just going to say it in blue language. The biggest pain in the ass customers are the people that want the lowest price ninety nine point nine nine percent, because those are the ones that are going to chew you up and spit you out and then be a pain in your backside. Well, you know, there was a little dent, there was lint, there are I have a handful look of Well, first, I'll complete the one of the thoughts and I'll jump back and answer what you just said, which was, you know, I use AI to rewrite my text messages because I don't want to send the exact same wording every time every you know, and there's only so many ways I can board it, and and so it helps me look at things different and then I go in and I change it. But it gives me the idea of how to change it. Big companies are not going to do that very well. They're they're going to just hand it all over to AI, right, and it's just going to be like a vru press one for this, yeah, two for this, you know, don't get me started phone systems. Yeah, well, it's essentially it's the first DAI. Right, it's a cranky old enemy will come out. But where you talk about, you know, the price grinders. It's funny if I have a hand full of price grinders that I work with, and it's it's funny of if you can build a relationship, if you can have rapport, maybe you know, if you can sit there and you know, and I have had the guy that I you know, you sit there and you go, hey, you know, we've talked about this for thirty minutes, three different occasions, and I helped to narrow down to determine that. You know, you don't want to less Paul. You don't want to strat a caster. You know, we we we talked through and we've determined you're a telecaster guy. You want a telecaster and you know, uh, great this you know, and now you don't want me to make any money, right, you know, you know my my effort has been great. You're grateful for it, but you don't want to pay me for it. Yeah, you got to eat too, I mean, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. You know somebody down the street has it for three dollars cheaper, and so I'm going to lose the business over three dollars, right, you know, qualifying you having your best interest at heart, determining what you want. Uh. And I have a handful of those customers that i've I've after if you, if you're able to build the report, explain it and I said there and I you know, and it's a fun conversation to have, it really is, and you said there you go. Okay, So moving forward, this is how this is going to work. Of I can't give you my expertise, I can't give you that time and that care and that relationship. If you need to be you need me to be that lowest price, if you need me to be you know, you know, five percent cheaper than everybody else. Right, I can't. I can't do that. I can't. Uh, you know, despite us having a warrant, you know, not a warranty but a return policy. Uh. People don't realize, you know, free shipping isn't free. Oh yeah, for free. No, there's no free lunch in the world, really there is. Yeah. I think what it is is a lot of people have a champagne champagne dreams. But I don't know if they're working with a beer budget or that's just their mentality, you know. I think a lot of it is is on us. I think, you know, rather than saying free shipping, you know, you could add the words free to you shipping, right, you know, but you know we don't market it that way. Amazon doesn't market it that way. It's free shipping. Well, no, it's not free. Yeah, oh no. And I've had to return a couple of things with you, and you said, and there's been times you said, hey, I'll pay for it to come back, don't worry about it. And a couple of times then you said, hey, Terry, I got to charge your shipping because of this, And okay, I get it. You know, I believe it's always been incredibly there. I ship stuff out my other in one of my other businesses, and you know, I ship out cases of books that weigh, you know, thirty two pounds, and that ain't cheap the ship when you're shipping thirty two pounds no matter what carrier. Okay. And I've had customers try and chew me up over that, and I said, listen, I'm telling you right now. And I try to say it as diplomatically and as soft as possible, but I say, listen, you're a business, right yeah. You charge customers or your patrons correct for your services or your talent or your your product, right you know. I mean, let's be honest here. Oh yeah, yeah, you know that, Terry. It's the same thing on this end of the table. I mean, I'm I'm willing to work with you, but I've got to keep the doors open, you know. I mean, the more we go, the more our our relationship develops. And you know, just like the old days, if you're buying in bulk and volume and everything, and I got a little more margin to play with. I can work with you. But if you're just going to come in and buy one case of books and one case of another product, and say, you know something that's going to cost me sixty five dollars to ship both these packages is because of size and weight, and say, well, you know, I want the best price, and I want you to eat another sixty five dollars off the bottom line. I just tell them that's not going to happen. Maybe this isn't the right place for you, you know, in so many words, politely of course, yeah, yeah, Well I was going to say, if you and I were smart and wanted to make money, we would be in the shipping industry. Oh yeah, Well they're taking They're taking a lot of hits though, too, because of fuel prices and shipping lanes being shut down and things of that nature. Believe me, I had to get some products from over yonder across the sea, and I've been basically told for the next ninety days forget it. You ain't getting noney, You get nothing right now because of the the cost to bring it in air freight wise, because they have to go up and around where certain conflicts are happening. Is about five times the cost that it was before that situation developed, and it's just doesn't make economic business sense to do it, and it doesn't make sense to try and do it stage side for the product and everything, because the cost again over here for certain manufacturing of goods is not conducive to good business practice either, you know, I mean I put on that business owner hat. You know, we were talking about the customer and servicing the low end customer, and and you know, some people have given me feedback, and you know, because I've talked about this topic before on podcasts and with other colleagues and in certain social media forms. They are they're a low hanging customer. They're low They're a low you know, residual customer. And I'm not ashamed to call them that because these are the people. Like, for instance, in the voiceover industry, there's certain things that if whether your union scale or non union scale, non union scale is a little more forgiving than union scale because that you're usually in SAG for a voiceover artist, and you have they have very strict guidelines and price breakdowns depending on the product. Now, non union voice actors can go by what's called the NAVI rates NAVUAA rates okay, National Association of Voice Actors Alliance, I believe it is or something or NAVA. Maybe they have on their website breakdowns. If it's an audiobook, it's anywhere from one hundred to four hundred or five hundred dollars per finished hour. Okay. Those are just rates depending on the work and what have you. You have some wiggle room to negotiate there. If you're doing an explainer video, Let's say, for a five minute explainer video for a company you know that that's going to put in their corporate training, that might run five to seven hundred dollars. I've seen sites like fiver that have popped up and up work and I understand they have to be in business, Okay, they have they have a business model. They got to make money or you know, nobody does this. Not everybody's Warren Buffett or Elon Musk okay, or you know the rest of them, or Donald Trump that has all this money falling out of their pockets that say I just do it out of good will. You know, there's got to be something in the end. But I have seen jobs on sites like five or and that where people go out there they're going to narrate an audio book you know that might be five hundred pages and might take you ten to fifteen you know, be a ten to fifteen what's called a PFH per finished hour project and do it for two hundred dollars, the whole project, with no back end royalty agreement. Now, just to give it the folks an insight again, like an audiobook per finished hour for that every hour that takes a voice actor anywhere, if they're really good, maybe an additional hour to an hour and a half, maybe ninety minutes to produce, you know, with editing and everything, plus their actual read of the time. And if you're not so skilled, I should say, let me say it that way, that could take you three hours to produce one finished hour. So you're talking, let's say a ten hour per finished hour project could be anywhere from eighteen to forty hours of work, and they want to pay you two hundred dollars. We'll do the math. I mean, that's a slap in the face, you know, you know, and and a lot of people don't have that that thought process, you know, because you're not only paying for the voice talent's time, you're paying for their investment in training. Training ain't cheap. And voice it's like taking acting classes for actors, you know, voice actor coaches and they they they're worth every penny. I'm working with a great one now, Dan Friedman. If anybody wants to look for voiceover coaching, I'll plug him as well. Dan Friedman is a great voiceover coach, you know. And I'm not telling you his rates, that's up to him. But voiceover coaches range anywhere from one hundred and fifty up to five hundred dollars per hour. But like you said, Dave, in your industry there at Sweetwater as a specialist, they're paying for knowledge, they're paying for guidance, they're gaining insight, They're getting a package, not just the end product. Well, I've I have a few customers, and it's interesting that you know, sitting there and going, you know, hey, if you want the absolute lowest price and uh, you can you know, sort of frame this one of you know, anybody who's a Sweetwater customer, I will tell you how to get the absolute lowest price every time from your sales engineer. It's a very simple process. Bad Cry chocolates are nice, but you know you call them once and you say, you know, I the only thing that matters to me is price. You know, everything else is secondary or it doesn't mean cool. You agree to terms that say, if you know, I decide I don't like it, if I decide it's not the right product for me, if I I will turn to a secondary market. Ah, sweet waters your exchange reverb eBay, you know what have you and and sell it. You know you will never have to worry about a return for me because card fees work both ways, when when it processes initially and on the return, and you know, I tell you what, I will send you a text saying, hey, can you know what's my best price on item X? Or can you do this price on item match? And your sales engineer will reply back a simple, very simple yes or no. Uh you know, uh. You know at that point, you know there should be a card on file to process. You know, I don't have time to call that person up and go, hey, which card do you want to use today? Yeh uh, you know, and very simple. And for some people like that, it it's it's a psychological you know battle, And I'm not saying that in a negative way. For people who want just the absence. I believe me. I worked in retail for over twenty five years as well before he broke out and started, you know, and I'm talking face to face retail. So I've been through hell. I've been to hell, all right, you know. And it's some people it's just like they enjoy the barter, you know. And it's not any specific demographic or anything like that. I'm not saying that. I'm just talking about certain segments of population just love to get in there. And well, you know that TV says it's you know, two thousand dollars because it's a fifty inch plasma or whatever plasma look at me going back in time, but you know it's two thousand dollars. This led TV. Well, I don't pay that, you know. I've had customers tell me and maybe you have had to. I never pay retail or sticker price ever. So you're like, all right, here we go. You're going to be a challenge. Let's have some fun and see if we can close this deal, you know. And so it's it's the funniest thing. We'll go ahead. I was going to say, then, you know the dance begins as much because my father was in the car industry for over thirty years, sold used cars, trucks, everything. So I would listen to his I call him his war stories. He would come home, you know, and sometimes he'd come home happy, he had a great week and a great day. And sometimes he'd come home pissed off because I had this guy. I was five minutes before the dealership closes and this clown comes in and Matt, I jerks me. So I've experienced all that, and that's probably why I started out younger, you know, doing retail and stuff, because let's face it, it's a pretty not a hard job to get and you can be trained if you're trained by some good people too. But go ahead. You had some thoughts and insight on that. Well, I was going to say. The thing that's funny to me is, for the most part, now it's not always like I said, I have a handful of customers that we operate that way. But for the most part, when I lay it out that way, of hey, you know, you you know, if price is the only thing that matters, let's go right to the price, and and that's it. You know, you don't get my expertise, you don't get my my my friendship and caring and both of those, all of those are worth something. Folks. I'll tell you that I appreciate that, man, You know that. You know, they don't stay in that lane very long for the most part, the folks. They'll try it and they'll do you know, two to three four orders that way. And and to your point, they don't stay there because that was never the goal. The goal. You know, price was the mechanism, right, but it wasn't the goal. Uh And and you know it's you know, you want to talk at a topic for a full show, this would be it of the psychology of the shopper, of that right of that of that you know, Okay, I want the absolute best price, you know. You know I used to be in the industry, and you know ten point deals. I don't pay anything over ten percent you know, ten percent gross profit. And so okay, cool, no problem, you know I can do that for you. It's it's not very satisfying for me. You're pot probably not going to find it very satisfying for you. But you know, here are the parameters to do that. And and you know, if it makes sense, I'll take care of you, right if it doesn't, I'll suit you a message saying no, and it's funny. Inevitably, they don't stay in that lane very long. They they eventually come around to what you were saying of. You know, well, hey, what what what you know? What makes this? Why? Why is it that people talk about pr SS? What? What what makes a PRS special? Oh? What you know? What makes uh? You know, why is it people love this this particular Yeah, and it's it's really kind of there's a sort of sick, twisted joy for me that happens when you have that person that you know goes. You know, price is the only thing that matters. I strictly buy on price. You start wringing your hands saying, all right, I'm ready for you. Let's go. Let's see what you do. Okay, yeah, yeah, here, here's how we can do that. Well yeah, this will be our yeah, this conversation right right? Well yeah, I mean and like you know, folks like zig Ziggler, you know, the psychology of you know, I mean, he could probably sell a catchup popsicle to a woman in white gloves. I mean, you know, I mean I believe he could. And I heard that from a movie. So I stole that. But yeah, I mean there's a lot of psychology that goes in. But you think about it. We all buy things, and you know, to your point where you said about it, it's it's about establishing those relationships. And it seems like there's there's a lot of folks I think maybe that get into business or maybe get into a commissioned sales position. That's saying I watched a twenty five minute Ted talk on how to sell, so I'm ready to go. No, you might learn some tips, you know. That's like saying I watched a Ted talk for an hour on how to fly a Boeing aircraft. Now, hopefully if the doors don't fall off, could you gain some insight on it? Yeah? Could you probably sit in the cockpit and you know, with an experienced pilot next to you, take the controls and move it about, you know, seven hundred yards up and down the runway. Yeah. But are you ready to make that transatlantic or that even domestic flight? I highly doubt it, you know, and it seems like a lot of society wants that that, you know, quick, quick, quick, quick, Okay, all right, you know, like guys, we're guys, what the hell's the manual. When we get something that a manually, throw that to the side. We'll try and put it together and then we're like, why do we have seventeen extra parts here on this? Oops? You know so. But there's a lot of that fast stuff. And I think a lot of that too, has to do with social media like TikTok and you know, YouTube shorts and Instagram and Facebook. It's like that instant gratification. I mean, and on. And I'm not preaching, folks. I'm telling you everyone, I have fallen down the YouTube. I'm not a TikTok person. I'm not on TikTok. I don't use TikTok. And it's not just because of the security concerns and infiltration into your privacy. I just I just don't see any relevance to it. Now. I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate emails, so when you email me, just remember mail at weises thoughts dot com and keep your language soft. But I'll go down the rabbit hole with like YouTube shorts, and then that algorithm just keeps me Oh, okay, I've flicked on this about the bass guitar, or oh here's something about you know, Pino Palladino, Here's something about you know, sting, Here's something about you know, Victor woot And all of a sudden it starts feeding me. And then I'm like, next thing, I know. I look at the clock and holy crap, I've been doing this for ninety minutes, you know, watching one minute videos or thirty second videos, you know. And I think that there has been studies that that dopamine shots that you're getting every few seconds, you know, And I mean it's like hitting it, you know, it's like hitting that pipe or you know whatever, whatever your bad vice might be, you know now. And it's not to say it's not bad, but it's like anything, it can be used for bad things. But listen, we've been going for quite a while now. This is going to definitely probably be a two part episode. I will tell you my favorite manual story and then I probably do need to cut out. Yeah. Oh yeah, thank you for all the time though it's been quite importable. Yeah yeah, do tell I mean we'll have to do it again soon. We will. So we'll pick another topic and run. Uh. So, my wife and I are first married Christmas, were in an apartment. We have a lovely balcon outside the apartment, and and Kimberly's parents bought us a gas grill, and it was it was so nice. I mean, it was wondering, so generous, wonderful nice. And I take it. And you know, at the time, I'm working in a machine shop. My dad was a master machinist. And I take it, I put it together, I assemble it, and and like you said, I have about four extra brass screw fittings, the brass pieces, and I know enough that the brass, of course is the part that works with the gas, so it doesn't corrode. And I'm like, that's a bad sign, okay, And so I completely disassemble it and I put it back together again again, reading the manual. Same thing. Takes a few times for us to learn. Yeah, at this point I have I see where I missed one brass screw. I'm like, or one brass not her, you know, But I'm like, I still got a whole lot of brass sitting here. Take it apart again. This time, I pull out the manual. Now, being an obsessive, compulsive person, as most musicians are, the sun is starting to rise. That's how long I've been putting this thing together. Oh WOWT ten thirty, eleven o'clock at night, you know, yea hours. Yeah, Oh, it's you know, it's like a job. Oh yeah. And I get to the last page of them. I have it all put together. Last page followed the instructions implicitly, you know, still three or four pieces of brass. And I flipped the manual over and it says we may have sent you some extra bras. That's classic. There you go, and you and you were probably kicking yourself all the way into the bed that morning, going what nah did I just do? Oh it's back when I worked with Dad. I uh uh a double espresso and I went to work that morning. Guy, I would admit, yeah, well that was probably before the days of Red Bull and everything. You know. Well, Dave, it's been a pleasure to have you on the program today. Thank you very much for taking some of your valuable time and spending it with us here around a virtual camp for today. I appreciate it. Terry, it's always a pleasure to talk to you, whether it's you know, professionally, whether it's personally. You know, you're just yeah, there are very few good men in the world. And you're one of them. I'll stop. You're gona make me blush and give me You're gonna give me an inflated ego. Lord knows me go to my wife that we can't do that. You know, she has to, you know, I tell her, you know, just when I'm thinking and I'm feeling good about myself, I say good morning to you, sweetheart. You put me break back in my place. She doesn't like that joke, all right. Was a grble comedian, yeah, who was sat there and said, you know, I meant to say, hey, honey, would you pass the assaultan? Instead I said, you be, you ruined my life. I used to tell people when I went into work, you know, when I had air quotes, a real job where I had to go into an office, I used to say, you know, you know, I come back from vacation or a couple of days off, and he said, hey, welcome back. I said, yeah, you know, my self esteem was getting a little too high, so I had to come back here so I could get grounded. You know. So, folks, we've had Dave Cody on the program today. He is a sales engineer at Sweetwater, amongst other things. But as we you've heard very knowledgeable on music in the music industry. He would definitely I can praise him because he will definitely take good care of you, treat you like one of the family. If you want to call him, you can call him at one eight hundred two two two four seven zero zero. And I believe it is extension thirty two thirty five Dave. Is that right again? A man among men? Thank you to there you go, and if you want to reach out to him, he will definitely take good care of you. Like I said, I've known Dave for many many years and he won't steer you wrong, big or small. Day will take care of it all. Look at that. I just gave you a tagline. Put that into your aiolgorithm. So we will talk again soon. My friend. Thank you, you have a good rest of your day. Thank you, Jerry, bye bye and